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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11969	Posted - 2015.03.04 12:55:24 - [1] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: you do realise that without porous borders, that systems can be protected 20 jumps away with large areas of space only occupied with ratters and bots? You do realize that's not how it works? Oh, wait, look who I'm talking to. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11969	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:05:46 - [2] - Quote So here's the part that stuck me the most, after I read it through a few times. Where are the farms and fields? Where is the reason to actually live there, the reason to jump through all these hoops to plant your flag in a system? I see a huge buff towards system disruption. Neat. I see the removal of structure grinding. Also nice. But I see little reason to put up with the headache of sov mechanics in the first place. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11969	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:29:07 - [3] - Quote Gremoxx wrote: AFK / cloaked camps will need to be fixed. Anyone who interrupts industrial / ratting activity is basically declaring war by default, as indexes will drop and capturing the system will be easier. That looks to have been intentional, bro. This is close as you can get to CCP outright stamping approval on cloaky camping. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11972	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:45:33 - [4] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Ezwal, literally the only CCP person who you know has read the thread in its entirety so far. They're volunteers, not CCP staff. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11972	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:47:42 - [5] - Quote Dradis Aulmais wrote: Gremoxx wrote: Some thoughts on this: AFK / cloaked camps will need to be fixed. Anyone who interrupts industrial / ratting activity is basically declaring war by default, as indexes will drop and capturing the system will be easier. What ship class can fit this module ?, will the ship be fixed in space or can it move ? can I use interceptor with implants / booster drugs / rigs and do 7000m/s while using this new module? Region entry systems, high-sec gateways, choke points. Doing ratting / industrial in these systems is near impossible, with the new sov system, you will be defending these systems on hourly / daily bases as indexes will be nill. Change is good, but this new sov mechanics will need a bit more before it can be bought wholesale. AFK cloak rubbish again There are two of them in my home system and it hasn't stopped us from mining or ratting Or blops or fights or a million other things If you can't function with the unknow your life must be full of fear That's what I love about your PFR guys. You actually have a pair, unlike Provi. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11973	Posted - 2015.03.04 14:41:15 - [6] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: Which is another point. The fighting for sov is all very interesting, but I don't see many reasons to bother fighting for sov. Most nullsec space is virtually worthless. The best nullsec space is actually the NPC pockets with pirate level 4 missions. That's my second post in the thread. They've created what seems to be an improvement on a system that generates and enables conflict. But where are the farms and fields? Where is the incentive to actually live there, besides just the **** trophy of planting a flag? As for the CSM, there are two possibilities here. Either they already knew and had their say by now, or they got caught with their pants down and haven't formulated a response yet. Pick whichever you please until someone corrects me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11975	Posted - 2015.03.04 14:51:41 - [7] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: So interceptors ensure occupants, active, and engaged. Banning them reinforces current sovereignty stagnation. Don't think you are going to get your way. You might actually be handicapped. You can just park a battleship on a timer to contest it, with a tank that an interceptor can't break. These changes are a huge buff to even a semi active defender. So no matter what, you don't get your way. Interceptors need nerfed for a lot of reasons, besides. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11975	Posted - 2015.03.04 14:58:58 - [8] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Somewhat missing the point, once again. Interceptors are able to take uncontested systems into contention, if no one comes, you don't need to return with anything better. And you're not listening, as per your usual you're just restating your basic point over and over again as though it meant something in the first place. It's not that big of a deal. Interceptors have relatively pathetic dps, and they can't actually engage a contesting defender if they're in anything heavier than a cruiser. There are a lot of reasons interceptors need to be nerfed. But this change does little more than serve as a platform to bring that point up to CCP. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11975	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:04:38 - [9] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: So, your point is you do not generally like interceptors? And nothing to do with this thread in any way otherwise? Thank you for sharing that with us. And once again, you prove that you can't actually read. You go right on with your ignorance, I haven't the time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11975	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:19:54 - [10] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: If the defender has sufficient numbers LIVING LOCALLY then they'll have no problems whatsoever. If however they're spread out across too many systems then yep they'll be playing cat and mouse across their whole territory for 4 hours every day. Sounds exhausting doesn't it :) The problem comes from the fact that the income of most systems doesn't even justify more than a couple of people living there. The nullsec income system has to change along with this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11976	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:26:26 - [11] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: [ CCP can ONLY solve the economic part AFTER they have changed the sov system. Not the other way around. The prospect of it being simultaneous has escaped you. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11976	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:29:42 - [12] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Eli Apol wrote: If the defender has sufficient numbers LIVING LOCALLY then they'll have no problems whatsoever. If however they're spread out across too many systems then yep they'll be playing cat and mouse across their whole territory for 4 hours every day. Sounds exhausting doesn't it :) The problem comes from the fact that the income of most systems doesn't even justify more than a couple of people living there. The nullsec income system has to change along with this. I kind of agree although knowing the exact amounts of isk flowing in and out of null alliances coffers is not my strongest suit - But yeah phase 3 I presume :) Liquid isk is not the solution either. The bounty system is a failure, it does nothing but decrease in value with inflation, exacerbating the "I have to farm even more!" problem that so often leads to burnout and abusive afk farming schemes. (or worse, renting) LP, or some such mechanic, is the way forward. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11976	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:34:07 - [13] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: The prospect of actually doing the work to show what is actually available as income seems to escaped you. You've been shown it before, and you ignored it then too. Keep on wallowing in that ignorance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11984	Posted - 2015.03.04 23:12:24 - [14] - Quote Gevlon Goblin wrote: The problem with the Entosis trolling isn't that it cannot be countered. It can. The famous "trollceptor" can all be countered by a Rifter with a T1 Entosis link orbiting the structure at 5 km, freezing the timer. The problem is that countering Entosis trolling is so boring gameplay that you'll wish you'd still be grinding stations in Drakes. Either a mobile group needs to run up and down in the region whacking moles, or every system needs to have guards who just do nothing (or mine/rat at the keyboard) for 4 hours and respond to the ping. If they fail, everyone yell at them because 2 days later 10 nodes needs to be captured. If they win every time, they spent 4 hours of their lives at the keyboard with a handful of trivial killmails. Again: 4 hours of focused gameplay and practically no result. At least you could watch TV between reloads with the Drake. The attacker should commit something worth killing, so the defenders - if did their job well - go home with a nice killboard. Since the **** when do you make sense? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11987	Posted - 2015.03.05 01:38:41 - [15] - Quote Papa Django wrote: On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere. Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11987	Posted - 2015.03.05 02:49:08 - [16] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Papa Django wrote: On a single sov sure, but you cant be everywhere. Are you kidding? Hell's bells, if frigates can fit these things, they will require even less resources and commitment than an afk cloaker, for vastly greater effect. I thought AFK cloakers were incapable doing anything. You're right. This can actually do something besides give renters the badfeelz. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11987	Posted - 2015.03.05 03:27:24 - [17] - Quote Bienator II wrote: you can only troll an alliance if it overextended and owns a lot of space. If you don't own more than you can defend the problem doesn't exist. The way the income is structured, people have to spread themselves thin. This must be accompanied by a nullsec income rework. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11990	Posted - 2015.03.05 10:44:25 - [18] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: I would like to add that it will be far more valuable to discuss how features can be iterated on or additions to help CCP reach their goals, than trying to turn the clock back or neuter their plans. That ship has already sailed, and will only lead to frustration ad disappointment, rather than feeling one has been part of the process. Of course someone like you is trying to dishonestly squelch the feedback of others. The entire reason these are being released so early, as the CCP dev specifically said, is so that they can take player feedback to hammer out the dents in this admitted rough draft. That includes the fitting of the Entosis mods. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11990	Posted - 2015.03.05 10:55:14 - [19] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Of course player feedback is an incredibly valuable resource, Except that isn't what you said. What you said was to deride anyone who has a suggestion. What you said was "that ship has sailed", when the whole point of this thread existing, according to a literal dev, is to demonstrate that it has not. Take your bullshit somewhere else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 11:09:30 - [20] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Kaarous, whilst I try to reply to you politely, please do not make things up and put words into my mouth that were not said. I directly quoted you. Snip Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. Quote: But in a system based around active occupancy, removing the tools, or neutering those that enable that, is not going to work too well is it? But you of course know this. Which is why you wish to remove the tools. We're not talking about neutering, Snip Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. This is the conceptualization phase. This is where we have the discussion as to whether or not the overpowered interceptor hulls, or any frigate, get access to this. Stop trying to squash the discussion that is this thread's literal intent just because you'd rather crow about your theoretical philosophical victory. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 11:23:02 - [21] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Please see my comments above regarding antisocial behaviour. Nothing, then? I thought not, and I can't say I expected better from the likes of you anyway. I directly quoted your admission that you're just here to squash discourse. If you don't actually have anything to bother contributing to the discussion, then just shut up. I regret you fail to understand a reply clearly identifying it's goals. There's nothing to understand. As always, you have no point to make. Just empty repetition and pointless grandstanding. Your last few posts aren't even remotely on topic, either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:01:55 - [22] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps. Why? Shouldn't an attacker have to fight through the defenders instead of bypassing them by fiat? Or are you actually making the contention that unless a single system is guarded 24/7 from interceptors and cov ops frigates, that whoever owns that system is undeserving of it? Because last I checked, this was a game, not a job. I can't think of a better way to crowd any and all small groups than to force literally constant defense fleets. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:15:28 - [23] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF. EDIT: By the way, I do not think that the T2 version is meant for smaller ships, even though it may be used for them, I think that its a module thaht require lock so its limited to the targetting range, at least I hope that is the case. The tactical options can come from the 1000% buff to range. The speed buff is simply not necessary. 5 minutes might, in and of itself, be too fast. The only saving grace is that once you activate it, you are stuck on grid for that whole time. Although the question needs to be answered as to whether flying out of range will immediately halt the module (and thus give you back warp ability), or whether the cycle time will still complete but unsuccessfully(thus preventing warp for the entire cycle time). "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:19:57 - [24] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: But until people get exhausted form trying fruitlessly, to remove all the tools of the new sov2 it will be hard to move on from that into productive discourse. No one is doing that, you obtuse fool. The only thing stopping productive discourse is you and your pathetic attempts to crow over something that is literally still up in the air, as per the developers themselves. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:24:04 - [25] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Possibly because that is what we have today, large swathes of renters and unoccupied space. It would take a particular brand of denial, not to understand that, this is contrary to the entire concept of Sov2. It takes a particular kind of intellectual dishonesty to jump to the wild conclusion that defense is intended to be impossible in this rebalance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:27:51 - [26] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Papa Digger wrote: Arrendis wrote: Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve... What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :) We freeport it. I can't help but think that creating a deliberate DMZ of unclaimed systems around space that you actually want to own would be an unintended consequence of how this rebalance is currently planned. If anyone comes to take it to stage into your actual space, you just harass them with timers until they give up in frustration. It only takes two minutes a day to reinforce anything, after all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:31:02 - [27] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I think that speed buff for T2 was linked to marauders in Bastion mode. I think you should have to stay in the ships locking range, or on grid so flying out of range should halt the module and enable you to warp. But I don't care either way, though it would placate people a bit if they could not warp. My main question is if the attacks end does the 10 minutes start again? I hope that is the case. As was mentioned, you need to maintain target lock. So hopefully just pulling range while aligned doesn't break the warp disrupting effect instantly. Because that would be pretty broken. As for the timer, I also would like to know this. Hopefully it either goes back to zero immediately, or at the very least ticks down over time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:45:11 - [28] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: I came to the same conclusion about target lock. I would agree with you on keeping the warp disruption while the module is running, that would be better, so agree. I would prefer it going back to 0, but a timer going back to zero over time would work too. The worst of the three options, in my opinion, is that the timer does not change, and the defender has to grind it back down himself. This prevents the defender from simply killing the aggressors and going about their business, which is sub optimal in my opinion and just adds more chores. I strongly suspect that it will reset entirely, since from the flowchart they offered us it seems as though reinforcement and such is contingent on completing cycles of the Entosis links. The only hazy point is where it states that success activates the structure, but I believe that to be referring to active denial, such as someone turning a TCU on, for instance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:48:02 - [29] - Quote afkalt wrote: Terence Bogard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: As for the timer, I also would like to know this. Hopefully it either goes back to zero immediately, or at the very least ticks down over time. +1 The timer should tick back over time at like 50% speed. That way you only need to kill enemy links instead of having to deploy your own. Should allow more freedom in defensive tactics. Edit: With that approach you could just alpha link ships off the field once they activate, effectively forcing a large portion of enemy ships to fit links. This is directly contrary to the goal of forcing OWNERS to defend their own things. Except that they did defend their own things. By killing the guy who tried to contest it. Once the active influence of the attacker is gone, so should the effects be gone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:51:22 - [30] - Quote afkalt wrote: Or they batphoned the landlord - something they're trying to discourage. In two minutes? I doubt that very much. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:58:16 - [31] - Quote afkalt wrote: I've no issue with accelerated capture for uncontested defenders btw. Please tell me why, in any way, the attacker's influence should be permitted to linger after the attacker himself is dead. That'd be like drones that kept on shooting after the parent ship had been destroyed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:05:44 - [32] - Quote afkalt wrote: You mean like how defenders still need to take action against an RF item, even if it is uncontested? No, not like that at all, or to put it a different way, exactly like that. Because if I only knock a chunk off the shields of a contemporary structure but fail to actually reinforce it, it replenishes itself on it's own and my work is undone. Quote: Tell me why the OWNERS should not be fully involved in saving their own things? They are. They killed the guy doing it before he could finish. Why should the attacker be allowed to have his influence linger after he's already dead? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:12:23 - [33] - Quote afkalt wrote: As it is presented today, yes. People are asking for the thing to tick back itself after attackers die, thus directly going against the NEED to have the owners on field. Wrong. People are asking for the thing to tick back, or completely reset, after the attacker FAILS to complete a cycle. If you don't complete a cycle, you should get the Willy Wonka. "You get nothing!". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:15:59 - [34] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: This may very well be true, but can someone PLEASE provide accurate independent and most importantly public data to show exactly how good or bad this is. It's been a matter of public record on these forums for some time. It's been shown to you on no less than two occasions that I am aware of. If you choose to ignore them, that's your problem. The fact of the matter is that most truesec is worth less than slowboating highsec missions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:25:01 - [35] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: That hardly counts as data, I am talking about anomoly regen, isk available in anomolies for loot and salvage, (which we know has dropped) and bounties, officer and faction drops, and escalations over for a period of a week or two. Please tell me that you aren't actually this ignorant. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:33:26 - [36] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: You really are playing the fool aren't you Don't talk to yourself. Quote: Data! Hard data, Not individual sites, how many, regeneration, drops, times, real times, not "guessed". Over a period of days or weeks. Those all already exist. Just put the tiny bit of effort into looking at it for yourself, so you aren't here spouting ignorance at everyone else. I honestly cannot believe the level of your commitment to ignorance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:44:48 - [37] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Very well, I am sure telling CCP that tou want more money Strawman. I live in highsec. What I want is for other areas of space to be competitive with highsec, and at present nullsec is not. That's an established fact that they themselves are fully aware of. But since CCP can't get things done without someone beating the drum on things, it needs to be brought up. Especially in this context, since making sov more of a pain to actually hold without dealing with the systemic income issues that area of space has been plagued with for literal years stands to be fairly problematic. This is the time and place to bring it up. Now knock off your obnoxious trolling already. Quote: However if an intelligent person chooses to follow the example of a successful achievement. You can fluff corbexx all you please, but that's a different situation, context, and you're giving him far, far too much credit for the change. (you know, seeing as wormholes were already being reworked anyway) Once again, knock off your obnoxious trolling. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:54:04 - [38] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Possibly, you may wish to consider your fellow players, before dismissing logical and helpful suggestions. You are making neither helpful or logical suggestions. You're doing nothing but trolling, and badly at that. Do everyone here a favor and shut up already. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:02:09 - [39] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: However, the difference is, someone took the effort, to combine that information, INTO ONE PLACE. They. Know. This. Already. Stop harping about your nonsense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:03:26 - [40] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: If you don't have to tick it down, then you can have your SOV defended by your allies and never shop up yourself. False. Only if the attacker fails to complete a cycle. You know, just like how failing to reinforce a pos works right now. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:09:09 - [41] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: Why should these modules be usable on Interceptors? I have two opinions on this: If they add that the Entosis module disables prop mods in addition to warp drives, then everything should be able to fit it. If they do not add that, then it's fitting requirements should be sufficiently harsh as to be out of reach of every frigate class ship. The reason it should disable prop mods is to encourage this as a fleet and group activity for both parties, not just jousting around solo in an interceptor. This encourages fights instead of dicking around, conflict instead of whack a mole timer grinding. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:17:27 - [42] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Leaving grid even if your ship gets killed does not restore the shield back to 100%. You can come back just a few minutes later and continue from relatively the same point unless the POS owner repped it up. If I am shooting at a pos and I get blapped, if I do not return the pos will regenerate it's own shields over time. I would expect nothing less from the successor mechanic. Only the timeframe is really changing. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:18:22 - [43] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Clearly then, you have recently recieved large buffs to null income? No? Well, they either clearly do not, and require more data before implementing changes. Or they have decided the balance is right. False dichotomy, and an obvious one at that. I would quote Darth Tyrannus and say "surely you can do better", but I know you're not able. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:20:11 - [44] - Quote afkalt wrote: That, and the obscene income from goo. The better moons are worth about as much as a highsec ice miner. The worse ones less than that. For the upkeep and book-keeping they require, they are just fine. There is absolutely nothing "obscene" about it. Grr, Moons. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:22:16 - [45] - Quote afkalt wrote: Except it's not shields Yeah, it pretty much is. There is way more equivalency to be drawn here than not. Quote: and the ENTIRE driving premise behind this is to get owners undocked and looking after their own stuff. Citation needed. Also, they are, that's why they killed the attacker and he failed to reinforce. If I get blapped while shooting a pos and do not return, then I get nothing. The same should apply here. If they don't succeed their progress should be zero. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:24:03 - [46] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: However if one waits, meekly, for CCP to do all the work, then it may be a long time before it rises to the top of the very r Large work pile. That's the point, you obtuse fool. It should be at the top of the pile right freaking now. We are talking about a nullsec revamp right now, this is the time to bring it up, this is the time to get it done. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:25:03 - [47] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: I only had 2011 figures to work with I stopped reading after that. Well, actually, that's not true, I laughed uproariously at the "7 trillion" part. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:31:22 - [48] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Yes, you tell CCP what there priorities are, yeah jump up and down, insult those who are trying to help you, Grr CCP. You're not trying to help anyone, you're just trolling like you always do. And yes, I damn sure am telling CCP where their priorities should lie. I'm not the one who let the game system languish for half a decade, after all. But then Incarna is a whole other story. The point stands that they have a huge technical debt to pay off. This game is ten years old in too many ways right now, and sov is merely the top of the list. There are many more ducks to shoot down once this is completed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:33:55 - [49] - Quote afkalt wrote: You're being utterly obtuse, I'm basically done arguing with you over this. God, I hope so, you're being obnoxious. Quote: It's in the damned dev blog. You don't even need to read between the lines. You really should learn to just read. That paragraph is specifically referring to an allied group using an Entosis link in the middle of the fight to pause the completion of the attack. Two entirely different things. Quote: If it regenerates, this premise is broken. No, just the premise you made up out of whole cloth. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:35:42 - [50] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Can be made in an even more elegant solution. Just make it use enough cap that a frigate will nto be able to keep a Prop mod on while using it. But for a cruiser that will not be a problem... and even less for larger ships. Nope, wouldn't work. It's on a long cycle time, and it only needs to work once. It would be just as binary, either the frigate would not have enough cap to activate it in the first place, or it would. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:39:43 - [51] - Quote afkalt wrote: Afraid not. Read the blog and the flow charts again, without adding your own parts or making bits up. You first. It does not mention the circumstance I am discussing. It says "in fights over an owned structure", indicating a fleet fight in progress. It then goes on to say that the ally force will not be able to add their own Entosis to the mix to try and help their ally by stopping the attacker's progress. It does not say what happens if some solo trollceptor tries, gets blapped before he finishes, and I just leave. And what I'm saying is that is should immediately reset or begin ticking down once any attackers using Entosis mods are dead. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:54:25 - [52] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: A hard reset means you just suicide a group of ewar frigs against them every 40 minutes and restart the whole process. Definitely not. shrugs I fail to see why anyone would think that the burden of effort is intended to be completely removed from the attacker. If this doesn't end up with a timer or reset, I'll be very surprised. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11995	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:56:51 - [53] - Quote afkalt wrote: I've still not seen a reason that owners should not have to take action though. They are. That's why the attacker is dead. I have still not seen a reason why you think the attacker's influence should remain even after they totally failed a reinforce attempts. Quote: No-one is asking them to spend hours per object. That's actually exactly what you're asking them to do. Either defend the TCU 24/7, or come back for four hours per structure every day forever. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11999	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:09:22 - [54] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: Current method at least offers some initiative to the attackers to actually start a meaningful fight as the defender has to come on grid and push them off or remain on grid with them whilst risking a 20m module on even their cheapest ship. Quite the opposite, actually. It encourages any prospective attacker to spread out as much as possible, and fight as little as possible, since the cycle time on these things is so incredibly low. It actively discourages defensive fighting pre-reinforce. Which, in turn, basically puts a four hour per structure time tax on the defender. I elaborated this earlier. I can get a separate monitor, put up a few clients on it with an "afk" cloaked ship each, wait until I have two minutes, reinforce half a dozen structures(because let's not even pretend that is feasible or reasonable to tell people to defend a system 24/7. That's not a game, that's a job), and then they have to guard each and every one for four hours to make sure I don't show up and cap their **** like I'm sniping an Ebay auction. That is the optimal sov capture method. Barely more effort than afk cloaking, and I can capture sov from even determined defenders after a little while, since eventually they will get tired of it or their wives will kill them. And then you'd have the Republic of Kaarous, and I didn't fight anybody to get it. At least until someone wanted to take it from me, then we'd take turns trolling each other until somebody gives up. That's what made me laugh about the "weaponize boredom" line. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11999	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:12:38 - [55] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Why the hell do you think you deserve to hold SOV if you can't deal with inties in your systems especially with the timezone lockout? Why the hell do they think they deserve to hold sov if all they do is troll me with interceptors? Quote: If you only have enough people to defend 3 systems then how about you stop trying to control more than 3? Hey, that's a great idea that nobody ever though of before! Oh, wait, except that it's impossible to do given the current income system. I'd be able to support about ten players with 3 systems. Great plan, bro. That's what a bunch of my posts in this thread have been about, by the way. This MUST be accompanied with a full rework of individual level income in nullsec space. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11999	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:22:09 - [56] - Quote afkalt wrote: I'd LOVE to see these "mighty trollceptors" deal with a simple maulus/caracal combination. The issue is, as is obvious, not actually killing them. It's that, since it only takes two minutes to complete a reinforce (which then forces you into a four hour sitdown on the structure), that you functionally would need to have said Caracal and Maulus sitting 50km off of the structure literally all the time. Idk about you, but I missed the memo where EVE is supposed to be a job instead of a game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12000	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: It's very limited annoyance for the defender if he's locally based in the first place. No one can base locally. That's the part everyone seems to be forgetting. You're also severely underestimating just how much trouble one dedicated camper can cause. The Tl;DR of a bunch of the earlier replies to me: "But Kaarous, the defender has forty minutes under perfectly ideal conditions to un reinforce it!" Yeah, I know. How many systems in the game actually merit maxed out indices? How many don't? The last number is a damn sight bigger than the first number. (nevermind that this is a huge underestimation of just how much trouble one guy with half a dozen cloaked alts will be able to cause) Unless this is accompanied by a full, and I mean full restructuring of personal level income in nullsec, it will be problematic. Without said full restructuring, it is unreasonable to expect people, plural, to live in and defend a single system when that system has worse income than slowboating highsec missions. (let alone the disgusting income of Incursions) "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12001	Posted - 2015.03.06 01:11:05 - [58] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower. Cancer? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12001	Posted - 2015.03.06 01:14:21 - [59] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Arrendis wrote: Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower. Cancer? Invading Russia in the winter. The perpetual motion law. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12001	Posted - 2015.03.06 01:18:47 - [60] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: baltec1 wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Arrendis wrote: Once again: There is not, and in all of human history never has been a problem that cannot be solved better using the application of more brainpower. Cancer? Invading Russia in the winter. The perpetual motion law. Show me the solution to their of those 'problems' that came from a single mind, where teams haven't. None of them have been solved, period. There is no cure for cancer, no one has ever successfully invaded Russia during winter, and perpetual motion is physically impossible. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12001	Posted - 2015.03.06 01:31:20 - [61] - Quote Rowells wrote: Erectile dysfunction That was actually solved, but interestingly enough it was solved by accident while trying to create heart medication. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12003	Posted - 2015.03.06 01:41:59 - [62] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: There is no cure for cancer, no one has ever successfully invaded Russia during winter, and perpetual motion is physically impossible. Right, and so using them as examples of problems that were solved better using less brainpower doesn't work. That wasn't the point. The point is to show that there are, in fact, problems that have not been solved with more brainpower. Perpetual motion in particular is a big, big example of that. People have been trying to solve that one for almost two hundred years. Cancer as well. Large groups have been researching that for decades, with no real effect besides killing a lot of white rats. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12005	Posted - 2015.03.06 02:12:05 - [63] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: baltec1 wrote: Burl en Daire wrote: What would be your fix for the trollcepter? Don't allow it. And what would you say if large alliances were even more vulnerable to it by forcing them to have longer primetimes? I'm thinking 16-24 hours for someone of the size of the CFC/N3 And ofc disregarding any attempts at gaming the system with buffer alliances etc which can be countered with further limitations on sov tba. Why do you think that having sov should be a job? I'm really curious about that, because it seems like you're all in favor of mechanics that basically strap sov owners to their chairs with intravenous drips in their arms. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12006	Posted - 2015.03.06 02:21:23 - [64] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: Holding sov should be a job, not one that takes up all your time but it shouldn't be a cake walk either. I think making the prime time longer for larger groups would be a good change. Maybe a max of like 12 hours but the member count should be tied to prime time length. It's already 4 hours, per structure every day. All it takes is a few cov ops frigates cloaked in their systems. When I have a few minutes, I reinforce their TCUs and they have to spend 4 hours there the following day on the off chance I show up and ninja their stuff. Per structure. I can do this with station services too, with basically no recourse for the defender. They can. not. stop. me. from reinforcing their stuff while they sleep, unless they just don't sleep. And you would rather it was 12 hours, per structure, every day. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12006	Posted - 2015.03.06 02:26:13 - [65] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: I understand the problem with interceptors and why they don't encourage fights. How far should we go with it? Fitting it should be sufficiently hard as to keep it out of the reach of every ship in the frigate size class. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12006	Posted - 2015.03.06 02:29:29 - [66] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: There's a chance for the attackers to engage in a fight whenever they feel like it just by putting a link on a structure. That's true whether interceptors and cov ops frigates are allowed to use it or not. It's not magically true about frigates and untrue about cruisers and battleships. The only difference is whether the attacker risks anything, ever. Because if it can be fitted on frigates, the attacker has a cheap, easy solution that risks basically nothing. Go ahead and let us know right now if you think that should be the case. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12006	Posted - 2015.03.06 02:33:09 - [67] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: If a large group can field enough players to RF all of null each weekend and not reducing the home defense then maybe it should be longer. That, or it means that they've succeeded in the objective of the rebalance, take only as much sov as you can reasonably defend. The goal here isn't "make it unviable to have large groups", you realize. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12008	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:28:23 - [68] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: What's your idea to counter a walled defence around undefended systems? For my part, the same way I used to afk cloak people. Wormholes. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12009	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:31:40 - [69] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: We shouldn't let bitter vet syndrome set in before things even change. No, in fact people should make sure to not let up on lighting a fire under their asses so the game doesn't get half baked, unfocused changes piecemeal. That's a big damned problem with EVE, throughout it's history. Iterative changes are fine now and then, but not for something like this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12015	Posted - 2015.03.06 05:07:47 - [70] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: It should be a partime job or you shouldn't be there. You do realize this is a videogame, right? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12015	Posted - 2015.03.06 06:16:38 - [71] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: That perpetual motion can't be done doesn't make it a problem that needs to be solved. Having people who think they can think turn it into a problem doesn't then make it a problem. It may just be evidence that those people who think they can think can't actually think. What the **** are you talking about? It isn't something so philosophical, it's the second law of thermodynamics. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12017	Posted - 2015.03.06 06:48:00 - [72] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: [ Yes, but if you aren't willing to put in the work to hold the space then move to HS or LS. Null sec should be work just like WH should be work. And, according to you, sitting on a structure all the time should be where that bar is set. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12018	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:25:19 - [73] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: What else is there? Don't even try a false dichotomy. There are more alternatives to sov warfare than grinding structures endlessly and having to babysit each and every structure forever. The 2 minute cycle time is too short, can be done at too long of a distance, and if it's available to frigates it does not give the defender any ability to respond to a pre-reinforced attack short of sitting on that structure literally all the time. That is not an acceptable solution. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12019	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:43:48 - [74] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Tell me which ship you have in your hanger that has a lock range of 250 that you envision will be doing these sort of deep territory sov sapping missions. I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large. The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:46:12 - [75] - Quote Burl en Daire wrote: Timers and counters are the only way to do it and it has to be accessible to everyone or we are back to the problem we're in now. And like I said above. Setting the bar at 2 minutes of time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar too low. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:49:30 - [76] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Why is it too large? What exactly is stopping you as a defender from killing the target ship? It's too large because it permits methods of engaging the structure without committing to attacking any defenders. With a gigantic range on it like it has, if you get a decent kiting cruiser and engage at extreme range, their only chance to deal with you is to just sit on the button with their own Entosis module contesting yours, until one of you gets bored and leaves. That is not creating conflict. That is incentivizing a lack of conflict. Quote: (BTW you dont have to defend 24 7...only 4 hours in your prime time of choosing.) 4 hours... per structure, each and every day that someone with a cov ops ship spends 2 minutes while you're asleep reinforcing them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:51:47 - [77] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: The question is, how long is the actual capture time. That's not relevant. The attacker doesn't have to be on grid for that, by all indications. The attacker only has to pop out for 2 minutes, then cloak up in a safe. If they come back and "rep" it, he does it again. If they don't, they have to waste four hours the next day, and the process starts over. That's just an inordinate amount of babysitting. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:00:19 - [78] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Or you get your own kiting curiser, and since its YOUR system which you are living in, you should be able to catch that pesky attacker and kill him. That sounds like conflict to me. You ought to know by now that most people will take the low road. That being, to park a tanky ship with a cyno in the highslots on the button contesting it. Quote: If you're asleep, obviously it isn't your prime time. If it isn't your prime time, why would your 4 hour window be set up during that time? Think logically here. Did you even read what I wrote? It's vulnerable to reinforce at all times, not just prime time. But once it is reinforced, you are committed to 4 hours time tax the next day, per structure, because there is zero recourse against something that takes only two minutes without being on each and every structure 24/7. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:01:32 - [79] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: By what indications? Read the dev blog. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:07:06 - [80] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: But here' the thing none of you are getting...1 man isn't going to reinforce any sov...unless it's unoccupied. Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep. Why do you think that owning sov should be a job, instead of a videogame? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:09:49 - [81] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: And the defender doesn't have the option to do the same? You genuinely can't read tonight. I'm talking about the defender. Quote: No where in the devblog have I seen that you can RF things in 2 minutes. IT states that the modules takes 2 minutes to start activating. Can you please direct me to your source and other "indications?" You've gone full ****. The Dev Blog you obviously didn't read wrote:** Entosis Links have a significant cycle time (5 minutes for the Tech One variant, 2 minutes for Tech Two) and do not start affecting the battle for control of the target structure until the end of their first cycle. That means all you have to do is finish a 2 minute cycle while they're asleep or on the can, and it's done. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:13:26 - [82] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep. If they have to sleep during their declared prime time, you've got to ask them some interesting questions. You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:23:40 - [83] - Quote Well, missed that part. (God, their layout for that sucks) That's better than I had realized, although still not ideal. It still mandates babysitting your structures when you should be out using your space and doing things. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:28:02 - [84] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Lol, dude.... You REALLY might want to read the dev blog yourself before ranting over people to read the dev blog. They already corrected me on that, but thanks. It's still a lousy system that makes you babysit structures when you should be actually using your space instead, thanks to the ridiculously low cycle time. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:31:04 - [85] - Quote Seraph IX Basarab wrote: It mandates living in your system. Your worthless, truesec system with an income below that of L4 missions... Quote: I'm also relieved that it isn't in fact too late for me and that apparently I'm the one that can read. But I can blame mine on the ****** mobile layout they have for that dev blog. Genuinely atrocious, but that's what I get for posting from my phone. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:34:09 - [86] - Quote nossler wrote: So reading comprehension is no longer taught in school then?? That depends, at least in regards to this part. Quote: Also the text you quoted doesn't say that you can RF something in 2 minutes. Just that it takes a minimum of 2(5) minutes to make any progress towards RFing something. Because it sure looks like it does. Quote: exerting uncontested control over Territorial Claim Units, Infrastructure Hubs and Outposts will take 10 minutes (plus the duration of the first cycle) So, pop the first cycle, leave, if it's not contested again in ten minutes, it's reinforced. Unless that sentence means that you have to cycle the whole thing for that time, which if that's the case, they should just say that then. Because the flowchart suggests that you have to do it once, and that the other timer is for the defender to respond with a contesting Entosis cycle. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:40:23 - [87] - Quote afkalt wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Torgeir Hekard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yeah, they can, because it takes a mere 2 minutes and people have to sleep and eat and use the bathroom. If someone lives in a system, it is not "unoccupied" just because they have to sleep. If they have to sleep during their declared prime time, you've got to ask them some interesting questions. You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time. No. You. Cant. Already pointed out, thanks. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:46:05 - [88] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: As far as I understand, The Module has a 2 minute spool up time after which it starts affecting the timer. Yep, confirmed in the blog. (how does that not seem ridiculously low to you?) Quote: So each time you enter the grid you have to spend at least 2 minutes on grid to start affecting the timer. If you leave the grid, the timer stops. If you return, you need to spool up for 2 minutes again. Okay, I can't find anywhere where it says that. Please quote it, because it sure seems to me that completing one cycle is enough. What I'd like it to be, is that the attacker needs to keep an active Entosis module for the entire capture period. But that is far from clear just from what I'm seeing in the blog. So if you're seeing otherwise, I'd like to see it too. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 08:54:15 - [89] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: What I'd like it to be, is that the attacker needs to keep an active Entosis module for the entire capture period. But that is far from clear just from what I'm seeing in the blog. So if you're seeing otherwise, I'd like to see it too. The flowchart linked above (and in the original article) seems to imply that's the case. They seriously need to hire a full time proof reader. I'd like to see a separate thread for each of the wackassed things that these do, laid out more simply. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12021	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:10:39 - [90] - Quote Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: The process is still trollish, but not to the extend you're making it. Seemingly correct, as was pointed out well before you. I'd still love CCP's clarification, however, as the dev blog leaves me with several confusions. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12023	Posted - 2015.03.06 09:53:51 - [91] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: CCP take heed. linkback Thank you Rifter! That is, more or less, the summation of several of my concerns with this proposed system. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12023	Posted - 2015.03.06 10:08:24 - [92] - Quote Papa Django wrote: tlmitf wrote: http://www.themittani.com/features/proposed-sov-changes-rise-trollceptor In reply to the issues raised in this article about interceptors being used to "troll" alliances, the answer is simple. The answer is : there is no issue with trollceptors. It was discussed extensively in this thread it is so easily counterable when you live in your space. And what that really means is that, during your "prime time" you are automatically on the back foot, and have to babysit each and every structure in your alliance. You'd be spending your peak hours guarding your sov instead of using it. To me, this seems remarkably hostile to small groups without the necessary numbers to have a presence in numerous timezones. (because large groups have more ability to manipulate their prime time to their advantage) "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12024	Posted - 2015.03.06 11:13:37 - [93] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Cloackign is already not allowed since you CANNOT LOCK ANYTHING WHILE CLOACKED!!! One wonders then if you can drop your target deliberately, and prematurely end the Entosis cycle and thereby it's debuff, enabling someone to disengage and warp off when they would otherwise be unable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12030	Posted - 2015.03.06 11:51:53 - [94] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: LOL. I DARE YOU to really convince 20 thousand players to do that all the time. At least fro more than 1 month. "nobody will ever have the kind of resources and organization to just make Titans whenever they feel like it. We're safe leaving it broken under the assumption that no one will ever pull it off." "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12037	Posted - 2015.03.06 22:59:27 - [95] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: It's been fun watching you do a 180 on every ideal you have projected over other subjects. Here you are being against people playing the game when in the justification of ganking hapless freighters in hisec you are all about playing the game and HTFU. Heh, that just goes to show you don't understand me, or my point of view. (but then, you weren't trying, you just want something to rail against) I'm fully in favor of harassing renters. I did it for a long time. But I'd like to them to actually have a chance. There are no "helpless" freighters in highsec, because highsec is just so very safe. You have to fail extremely hard to die under those circumstances. But this? This is like adding a zero to Concord response time. You know, making it possible to gank a freighter with four catalysts. I'd be against that too, if they proposed it. This amounts to lowering the bar so far, that what once required a commitment of several Dreadnaughts now require the commitment of a frigate and a handful of money. There is almost no commitment on the part of the defender, and everything to gain, up to and including the destruction of an iHub. I'm against turning the game into a job for everyone, no matter what part of space they live in, and that's what this does for sov holders. Quote: It's good at least knowing that all Church of HTFU dogma is as false as I assumed it to be. No, that's just your confirmation bias talking. I'm not a goon, either, much as though you'd delight in assuming that anyone who disagrees with your inane ranting is one. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12037	Posted - 2015.03.06 23:16:25 - [96] - Quote Oh yeah, someone brought up Dreadnaughts, so now I have a question. What the heck are Dreadnaughts good for anymore? Will they be rebalanced to find a new role? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12037	Posted - 2015.03.06 23:20:26 - [97] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: If CCP pre-nerfed everything that people were able to theorycraft into a disaster, nothing in EVE would ever be useable. They already do that for Caldari. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12037	Posted - 2015.03.06 23:36:46 - [98] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: Fights will still escalate in the new system, even without mountains of EHP to grind though. I suspect so, I merely wonder now that the paradigm is shifting to **** jousting in small disposable ships (like FW), whether or not people will commit expensive, vulnerable assets if they can get the job done without it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12037	Posted - 2015.03.06 23:37:42 - [99] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: M1k3y Koontz wrote: If CCP pre-nerfed everything that people were able to theorycraft into a disaster, nothing in EVE would ever be useable. They already do that for Caldari. Yea, that's why everyone is flying Tengus. Caldari are fine, missiles are hit or miss in terms of usefulness. One Caldari ship is fine, anyway. Well, that and the Falcon, but we all know why that is. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12038	Posted - 2015.03.07 12:58:23 - [100] - Quote afkalt wrote: Use it or lose it is the message here. And the problem with that is that most of it's not worth living in. As in, so bad you might as well be grinding missions in Egglenaert instead. Instead of being given to the ubiquitous little guy, that sov is going to be used as a DMZ between the areas actually worth having. If you want to force people to live in their space to defend it, fine. Just make it worth living in in the first place. Or is that too much to ask? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12038	Posted - 2015.03.07 15:00:50 - [101] - Quote afkalt wrote: Nope - but people need to adjust their expectations. It's ALREADY mostly worth it to live in, the problem is a wealth distribution one among grunts. Yeah, how dare people expect that the most dangerous space in the game would pay off better than L4 missions in highsec. This is the part where people can tell that you're just here to troll, by the way. Quote: As I mentioned early in the thread but stopped the derail - there is a LOT more to "null income" than anoms and drops. PI, moon goo is HUGE income - there is no denying that. SRP programs are not cheap - but they are there. That's not personal level income, by any means. Quote: The other thing that sits badly here is "the space is worthless, but no-one else can have it either" is...odd. If you weren't being deliberately dishonest, it would make perfect sense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12038	Posted - 2015.03.07 15:26:32 - [102] - Quote Kinis Deren wrote: You do know there is a Phase III coming and probably will address the risk/reward issue with null sec after the null restructuring is in place? What I know is that it exists, not what it's content is. But please, keep acting like your rumor mongering has any relevance on the thread. afkalt wrote: The bottom line is NULL as a WHOLE has massive income. No, that's not the point. You can scream "Grr Moons!" until you pass out, it means nothing. SRP is not individual income. Moons are not individual income. Individual income should not be worse than highsec. Period. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12039	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:12:45 - [103] - Quote Arrendis wrote: davet517 wrote: One more change, if you please. Add moon miners to the list of POS structures that you need sov to operate in non-npc 0.0. Then, you're golden. Why? You don't need it to operate them in npc null. You don't need it to operate them in Empire. Why would you need it to operate them in sov null? What's the intent of the change, and how does the change promote the intended result? The answer to all of those questions is "sour grapes". Hell, some people are so deluded about moons that someone told me in this very thread that one good moon can generate 7 trillion isk per month. "grr, moons" "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12040	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:29:56 - [104] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: But it is not supposed to be about who MAKES more but whether you enjoy doing it. Uh, no Mike, I'd have to say that risk vs reward is still relevant. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12040	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:37:47 - [105] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: As Mike points out - we can't weigh risk versus reward without looking at profit vs loss vs time spent vs amount of effort involved Righto. Because if you actually do that, highsec is equally as damned. Quote: ...and anecdotal or even theoretical analysis of the figures we anecdotally have available pales in significance to what CCP has available to look at. And CCP is well known for ignoring a problem until it explodes in their face. I think I'll keep right on in my attempts to impress the importance of this on them. Because otherwise they'll likely ignore it until it implodes and slap on another ill conceived bandaid like the ESS. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12048	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:18:16 - [106] - Quote Zakks wrote: You really should be ashamed. But I'm really not. Before you quit, can I have your stuff? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

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